Interview with the founder of the innovation Perry Gruber -----Part 1


Perry Gruber 2016

Please tell me about yourself. Who is Perry Gruber? 

He’s a guy who has a passion for making the world better than it was before he got here.

Copiosis started with the discovery of Larry Masons book the invisible hand which describes how to run a society. Can you tell us when you heard about Larry Masons work and the time when you actually met him. What did you discuss about ?

I believe it was in the mid 90s. I flew to his home in North Carolina and spent the day with him. We talked only about his ideas. At the end he and I agreed I would take his ideas and promote them around the world, with modifications as needed.

What else influenced and inspired you to re-invent capitalism into a better system? In other words..What made you decide that your lifework would become to transfer the current global socioeconomic system into a better one?  

I just believe we all have the ability to make the world a better place. I believe while capitalism has been mostly great, we can do better. There are many things that are my “life work”. Copiosis is just one of them.

One of my heroes is Buckminster Fuller who said that: “In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete.” Isn’t that exactly what Copiosis is doing? 


Did Peter Josephs and Jaque Frescos work give you visions how a moneyless society could save the world and make everyone's lives better on our only planet we have??

I do not believe the world needs saving. But no their work didn’t give me any visionary strategy. I didn’t know of their work until 2 years after starting Copiosis.

I’ve known you now for one and a half year and your positive attitude and the actual celebration of all the small steps which brings
the innovation forward is amazing. Even though the innovation is at its initial stage your trust in Copiosis is solid. What kind of advice would you give to people when they are down and don't see their highest potential as creators? In other words...how does a person hold on to his dream no matter how big it is?

It’s difficult to answer with a short answer. Keeping it short, all I can say is a person has to know that what their doing is going to work.

Why is it that most people do not believe in big ideas?

Because they focus too much on what is. So they forget that anything is possible.

How would the world be different when no-one would need to earn a living?

Oh…. I imagine it being pretty wonderful.

What is Copiosis??

It is a new idea offering a far better reality than we currently have where people don’t have to work for a living, are free from debt and wage-slavery, and can enjoy the most valuable thing they possess: Their time.

Basic Elements of Copiosis?

There is a long list of elements. Probably best to direct people to the website or to the blog.

In Copiosis capital goods are available to all. Can u define capital goods.

Capital Good is a service or asset used to create other goods and services. They are traditionally defined as Land, Labor, Capital and Equipment. 

You stress out that the root problem in todays society is the amorality of money. People think we need a medium of exchange in order to trade. Please explain why we should leave the era of money and direct exchange behind. Why is humanity ready for an global virtual currency reward system? 

Humanity is getting ready. It’s not quite ready. But there are signs of humanity getting ready all around us. Leaving direct exchange behind is a natural next step of our collective awakening.

I believe the root problem of money – its inherent properties: It’s uncontrollable, it’s amoral, its transferability and other properties – makes it impossible to completely solve our problems on earth. There are too many conflicts of interest in a direct-exchange, money-based economy. So to solve a problem completely means we have to go to the root of the problem. And that, I believe, is the nature of money itself.

You write in your newest essay A new Global Governance architecture that increment of environmental improvement always result when a Consumer consumes a product or service. Can you enlighten us with this train of thought? 

I mention this only about Copiosis. This can happen in monetary-based economies, but not always. In Copiosis, it always happens because producers are rewarded based on criteria that includes environmental improvement.

Also, because it doesn’t cost anything to do anything in Copiosis, people can do things easier, without thinking about how much it will cost. 

So, even if a producer is an anti-environmentalist, he would likely still allow planet-friendly ideas to be implemented in his process because he doesn’t necessarily have to do it, pay for it, or install it. But most importantly, he can receive more NBR by allowing it.

Question: The reward system in Copiosis rewards highly behaviour which is inherent in circular and sharing economy.
Can u explain how? 

It’s complicated. But the algorithm naturally measures values inherent in the circular economy. For example: a company producing cars would receive more NBR if it figures out how to recycle all the parts of the cars when the cars get old. If it sells the car to consumers, which is the way it is done today, they would receive less NBR because they transfer ownership to the consumer. The consumer has no inherent incentive to recycle the car. This is true with any consumer good today: the only incentive is “feeling good”. 

Lets talk about the payer group. Most people think that its too complex and difficult to measure and reward all human activity worldwide. How would you compare the complexity of this task to todays global free market capitalism?

Capitalism is just as complex as Copiosis would be. In some ways it is FAR MORE complex because it is full of redundancy. Competition creates multiple versions of things, duplicates processes, and requires human beings doing many things that other humans are doing at the same time. Producers don’t share knowledge as much as they could (or equipment, processes, etc.) because they need to keep a competitive advantage over their rivals. In Copiosis there is COOPETITION, which is a massive sharing of technologies and knowhow between companies because that creates the greatest efficiency, while keeping product diversity.

There is some coopetition in capitalism, but not that much. 

People think Copiosis is too complex because they haven’t taken a good look at capitalism’s complexity.

The payer organisation and why its not an authority?

This is a difficult thing for people to understand. That’s because they fear old models where authorities ruled them. But the payer organization doesn't have any power. So it has no authority. All it does is measure results and reward people for them. This process is done by volunteers. The volunteers are monitored by other volunteers. And those volunteers are likely also monitored. When people are free to do what they want, you get a radically different community. Especially when everyone is responsible for their actions (their ability to be rewarded).

This is a complicated question and merits a more complete answer. But I need to be brief.

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